Curse

ammad2006 · Nov 03, 2009, 04:18 AM // 04:18

I've been on Guru on and off for about a year, but today was my first time actually visiting Nolani's. And I have to say I was amazed.

Some of you guys really are just amazing artists. Some of these pieces literally made my jaw drop.

I've been trying to learn how to draw a little better because I am an avid Web creator and knowing basic design skills can go a long way.

The problem is I am a terrible artist to be frank. In my defense, the thought of even attempting to draw had never crossed my mind until now.

Which brings me to the point of this post. I have a few questions for all you artist that I would for you to answer.

Were you guys born with a talent for drawing or did you start off terrible and gradually improved? In other words, is drawing an inherited or learned trait?

What tips do you have for someone like me that is interested in creating his own masterpieces.

What mediums do you guys use. Pencil and paper, digital, etc.

Building on the last questions, what programs do you guys use in retouching your art. I have photo shop because I need it for the website creation but what else do you recommend?

Do you have any good websites/programs that you find to helpful in improving art skills?

Thank you all!

Charlie Dayman · Nov 03, 2009, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Welcome back to the boards.

Q. Were you guys born with a talent for drawing or did you start off terrible and gradually improved? Been drawing for as long as I can remember.

A. My father's entire side of the family is the creative bunch: artists, musicians, etc. I was just lucky enough to inherit that side while my brother got the brains :P

Q. What tips do you have for someone like me that is interested in creating his own masterpieces.

A. Try to find an idea you're genuinely excited about. It will usually strike you as a sudden feeling of inspiration/motivation to create something amazing. From there on out, just find yourself a comfortable setting and proper atmosphere to help your creative ideas flow. For me, all it takes is a little bit of brainstorming, proper tunes, and some tea.

Q. What mediums do you guys use.

A. Primarily pencil. Though I do use paint/charcoal on occasion along with Photoshop. Also have a small bit of experience with basic modeling/compiling, though nothing on par with folks like Minami: http://dog.fpsbanana.com/ss/skins/45392.jpg

Q. Building on the last questions, what programs do you guys use in retouching your art. I have photo shop because I need it for the website creation but what else do you recommend?

A. Photoshop is a pretty solid program. But I'm not exactly the most experienced artist with computer programs - best to ask some of the other artists on the board.

Widowmaker · Nov 03, 2009, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Dayman

A. Photoshop is a pretty solid program. But I'm not exactly the most experienced artist with computer programs - best to ask some of the other artists on the board.

I think it's safe to say the resounding answer from the majority of the artists here will be Photoshop and a tablet of some sort.

Charlie Dayman · Nov 03, 2009, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widowmaker

I think it's safe to say the resounding answer from the majority of the artists here will be Photoshop and a tablet of some sort.

Ah, just wanted to make sure. Don't want to be pulling answers out of the air.

Widowmaker · Nov 03, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Dayman

Ah, just wanted to make sure. Don't want to be pulling answers out of the air.

Oh I know, I was just confirming you were correct in what you were saying.

Duranin · Nov 03, 2009, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammad2006

Were you guys born with a talent for drawing or did you start off terrible and gradually improved? In other words, is drawing an inherited or learned trait?

I think I was born with an affinity for fantasy, dreaming, and creative art in general, but I definitely improved over time. I think some aspects of art are inherited, but others are learned.

It would be interesting if the artists on Nolani collected together some of their art over the years for comparison on how much they have improved.

Quote:

What tips do you have for someone like me that is interested in creating his own masterpieces.

Experiment and research shamelessly. Even though I'm still (unfortunately) trapped in the anime/nonpaintrealism art genre, I came a long way from stick figures through studying pieces by artists I admire and trying to figure out what it was about their style/technique that I liked so much... and then to apply it to my own art. It seems unoriginal at first, but as I create my own art what I learned from other artists naturally gets modified and incorporated into my own style.

I have no clue how this works for other schools of art. I've found absolutely no luck with the "observe and analyze" approach when trying to work on my painting skills.

Quote:

What mediums do you guys use. Pencil and paper, digital, etc.

Paint Tool SAI and an Intuos3. I may be getting a new tablet for new years.
I also do some pencil/pen/paper sketching and Prismacolor marker colouring. I'm bad at pencil shading

Quote:

Building on the last questions, what programs do you guys use in retouching your art. I have photo shop because I need it for the website creation but what else do you recommend?

For general editing/tweaking I'd still recommend Photoshop out of all the art programs I've tried. I like SAI much more when it comes to drawing from scratch, however. A trial version of SAI is downloadable off the internets and you can buy the full version for a fee.

Verene · Nov 03, 2009, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Personally, I've been drawing pretty much forever. It's something I've always liked.

In terms of media, I work pretty much in everything. Pencil, ink, marker, watercolor paints, Photoshop with a tablet, etc. Pencil will probably always be my favorite, though Photoshop and the undo command are crazily convenient

I also like Open Canvas. I used to work a lot in Illustrator; not so much anymore though I'll have to get back into it for my classes.

I also use Photoshop for a lot of stuff other than drawing/painting - in fact that's what I probably use it the least for. I primarily use it to create photomanipulations. I also just started college this fall studying graphic design (no one laugh at me for starting college five years late

).

Anyway, my drawings have always been sort of hit or miss, especially with shading and proportions, as well as accurately rendering something I'm looking at. Right now I'm really wanting to try sketching some stuff, though, as I've really learned a lot in my drawing and design classes I'm currently in - technical stuff that I've always sort of known, but never really actually learned properly. That and I'm getting bored of drawing still lifes

But just today we compared drawings we did the first day of class - a month ago - with drawings we did last week of the same subject matter, and it's kind of amazing.

Quote:

Prismacolor marker colouring

Heeee, Prismacolor markers <3 I love my supply kit for school - I have a set of Prismacolor markers (48 count), colored pencils (72), as well as grey markers. I've always wanted Prismacolors but could never justify the cost. Now, not only do I need them, but I didn't have to pay a cent out of pocket

I haven't even used them yet (we're just working in pencil and black ink right now), though I really want to pull them out to play with.

When I came home from orientation with my supply kit and started going through it, my family was making fun of me and saying I was acting like a kid in a candy shop. Considering I was digging through a case with about $1200 in art supplies, I don't think anyone can really blame me

YunSooJin · Nov 03, 2009, 05:17 AM // 05:17

If you want to learn how to draw, I suggest the pdfs of Andrew Loomis. 'Andrew Loomis pdf download' on google will send you to him shortly. Also you can download Gnomon video workshop videos for free from various websites.

Andrew Loomis is like everyone's best kept secret. Free, great books, lots of basics and solid teaching style anyone can follow. Very strong on construction as well.

edit: Drawing is primarily a LEARNED trait. You will never get better unless you are constantly drawing. If you want some inspiration, head over to conceptart.org and check out their personal journals and watch people improve. Pretty amazing.

BlueXIV · Nov 03, 2009, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Q. Were you guys born with a talent for drawing or did you start off terrible and gradually improved? Been drawing for as long as I can remember.

A. Sorry to break it to you, but great artists are born with higher spatial cognition than the normal man, and generally they have better coordination, resulting in a cleaner stroke.
Also, creativity is something you are born with. You can't learn creativity. If you don't have it, you don't have it. Of course we all do improve when we draw, but there is just a caste you can't escape from. You have to play the cards you're dealt. If you have been drawing for that long and still haven't improved, you should just give up.

...Re-read that, and if you believed it, I don't recommend going into art.

Q. What tips do you have for someone like me that is interested in creating his own masterpieces.

A. Draw. No seriously, draw. Don't get put off about how much you "suck" or whatever. Keep drawing. Also, draw from life. Do studies of everything you see. Drawing from your mind and drawing for fun is great for motivation and stuff, but you wont improve by much if you don't draw from life. You can always pick a style after getting the basics down, and everything you do will be that much better.

Q. What mediums do you guys use.

A. Digital/pencil/oil/gouache/acrylic/pen&ink/pencil/charcoal. It's good to be varied :P. Primarily I do stuff with digital/gouache tho, since it's easy to clean up.

As for programs, photoshop is what I use for every step of the process. I find it has all the tools I need.

Q. Building on the last questions, what programs do you guys use in retouching your art. I have photo shop because I need it for the website creation but what else do you recommend?

A. Photoshop is still the industry standard. I wouldn't worry too much about making things perfect or retouching when you start though. Best to start off rough and do as many as possible instead of wasting time detailing something that might serve as nothing but a rung on the ladder to success. (I bet YSJ will fail at this when he starts doing art though, and spend 392183029 hours on everything and only do like 2 drawings an year)

Edit: @YSJ, Loomis is a secret? :| Every time I go on CA.org or like any art site class, they link loomis like they link pvx here. Indeed Loomis books are awesome, but make sure you read all of them, not just the anatomy or w/e ones. Eye of the painter is what you want to actually read. Especially you, Mr Details.

Oh and one more thing. I really really don't recommend starting with a tablet/digital. Digital can get you into many bad habits. Also, despite what many people would think, digital is NOT as easy as they might think. There isn't a Push for Art button, and you can easily fudge up paintings.

And this post is just as much for you YSJ as it was for the OP.

hoodiestarfish · Nov 03, 2009, 05:37 AM // 05:37

theres always photomanipulation, text and vectors tho :P

ok srsly..... u must like art first and foremost. if u dont like it u'll nver achieve what u want and whats the point. u must really love it not just to show off etc but thoroughly enjoy the process and pushing to the next level. its alot of hard work and never stop and think this is it this it the max i can go....

its just blood and sweat. 10 percent talent 90 percent hard work.

Breakfast Mc Rit · Nov 03, 2009, 05:37 AM // 05:37

I only started drawing at 15-16, so it's definitely possible to learn all on your own.

My one tip for someone who considers themselves as "terrible" (I'd use "inexperienced" :P), don't expect a masterpiece right off the bat. It takes a great amount of effort to pool up the looseness, confidence and technical knowledge to pull off a really good piece of art.

I believe you can buy a simple inexpensive tablet on amazon.com. I wouldn't go too big, as I don't believe it would be necessary, and too small can be awkward. Some come with software you can use that is more straightforward than Photoshop, but Photoshop is great. Browse around.

As for sites, conceptart.org has a forum section that has a lot of info you can use, it's worth checking out.

Chicken of the Seas · Nov 03, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Like hoddie said, there's all kinda of other art forms out there, I've experimented with most and I can say that I enjoy photography the most. While it doesn't seem to be what you're interested in, I can still answer some of the basic questions.

I like to consider myself creative, meaning that I have ideas but that doesn't necessarily mean I had the skills for it. So, I think that you need to have at least some sort of creativity inside you before you can become motivated to start. That's just my opinion however. Yes, looking back at my first photographs that I thought were awesome at the time are actually complete crap to me, you will find that as you continue to practice you'll look back and say, "Ew."

For drawing just study anatomy. Draw body shapes by looking at them, and do different shapes and poses, over and over. Yeah in the beginning you'll most likely think it's crap but I guarantee you will improve over time. You'll start to have those aha moments where you find an easier way to draw a body part.

What I love most about art is the finished product, even though others may consider it to be not that great it shows off the best of your abilities at that time, and let's you be proud of something. =)

hoodiestarfish · Nov 03, 2009, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken of the Seas

Like hoddie said, there's all kinda of other art forms out there, I've experimented with most and I can say that I enjoy photography the most. While it doesn't seem to be what you're interested in, I can still answer some of the basic questions.

I like to consider myself creative, meaning that I have ideas but that doesn't necessarily mean I had the skills for it. So, I think that you need to have at least some sort of creativity inside you before you can become motivated to start. That's just my opinion however. Yes, looking back at my first photographs that I thought were awesome at the time are actually complete crap to me, you will find that as you continue to practice you'll look back and say, "Ew."

For drawing just study anatomy. Draw body shapes by looking at them, and do different shapes and poses, over and over. Yeah in the beginning you'll most likely think it's crap but I guarantee you will improve over time. You'll start to have those aha moments where you find an easier way to draw a body part.

What I love most about art is the finished product, even though others may consider it to be not that great it shows off the best of your abilities at that time, and let's you be proud of something. =)

@chicken: its "hoodie" and ur not using that avatar i made u QQ

Verene · Nov 03, 2009, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

digital is NOT as easy as they might think

Digital is, really, rather difficult. People seem to have this notion that the program does all the work and all you do is sit there and push a few buttons. But it's not the case at all.

Maybe it's just me, and the fact that even with a tablet I can't accurately draw something on the computer, but really the main reason I like digital (as in, drawing/painting digitally) is because of Ctrl+Z. It's not as easy to correct mistakes when you're drawing something on paper as even pencil can be difficult to erase fully (should hear some of the strings of swearwords that come from me when I screw up inking something, because short of scraping the ink off with a knife, there is no way of fixing that).

Quote:

theres always photomanipulation, text and vectors tho :P

I love photomanipulations and vectors. Such fun art styles, though they come with their own sets of difficulties that you need to get used to.

Don't get me started on text. I'm trying to design my friend's wedding invitations right now. I have an idea in my head, but the bloody text just won't cooperate. Feh. I hate text.

Duranin · Nov 03, 2009, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

Ctrl+Z

Ctrl+Z is god.

Granted, it does make me somewhat more sloppy - rather than trying to get a line correct the first time, my left hand just camps the lower left corner of the keyboard and I just do wild strokes over and over until one of them looks like what I want. Doesn't really help build hand control. lol

I enjoy the challenge that comes with traditional art, but it's also really frustrating to have an entire picture 'ruined' because your hand twitched a little bit on a detailed part of the lineart, or because your marker/pen suddenly had a nosebleed. >_>

Quote:

I love photomanipulations and vectors. Such fun art styles, though they come with their own sets of difficulties that you need to get used to.

I did a bit of experimenting with vectors back when PS was the only art program I had at my hands, but it's not really something I think I'd get into. The benefit of vectoring is that tablet/no tablet doesn't make so big of a difference for the end result. I'm by no means experienced at vectors though, hell I might even have the definition of what a vector is incorrect in my mind.

I'm also a total noob at photography.

BlueXIV · Nov 03, 2009, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I dunno, I feel like mistakes with traditional can always be fixed whether with some white gouache or some paint overs. On the other hand, when you screw up digitally, it's usually a big mistake that you made in the composition when you were so focused on zooming to do things.

I usually refrain from using ctrl+z at all for the first 10 minutes or so of painting. You might find that many of your mistakes are actually quite awesome later on. Painting over in photoshop is quite similar to painting over in real media.

And photoshop can be abused pretty easily. Insect battle says hi

Duranin · Nov 03, 2009, 06:02 AM // 06:02

I guess that depends on what materials you have on hand P: I've never used gouache (I may look into it as white highlights on my marker art...) and I doubt painting over works with my non-paint media ~~

o.o insect battle.

Qing Guang · Nov 03, 2009, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammad2006

Were you guys born with a talent for drawing or did you start off terrible and gradually improved? In other words, is drawing an inherited or learned trait?

What tips do you have for someone like me that is interested in creating his own masterpieces.

What mediums do you guys use. Pencil and paper, digital, etc.

Building on the last questions, what programs do you guys use in retouching your art. I have photo shop because I need it for the website creation but what else do you recommend?

Do you have any good websites/programs that you find to helpful in improving art skills?

Thank you all!

a) I've been drawing since, um, probably preschool. Been drawing serious fantasy stuff since about 4th grade... but you look at that and it's hilarious. Descended into a manga-copying hellhole (not attacking manga, I know some very good manga artists, just that I got hung up on copying one style and all my characters looked the same) for several years, only got good at all since I've been in high school. Oh, and I took art lessons and 2 school art classes... so basically practice a lot, find a good teacher. And draw realistically before you try to cartoon, because it's a lot easier to learn anatomy and form and style and such first and caricature/simplify later than to attempt to go from an exaggeration to reality.
b) See above? Also, doodle CONSTANTLY. I draw on my math homework, on my English notes (have some lovely Star Wars costume designs scribbled on my set of Julius Caesar notes from sophomore year, probably the only reason I kept them - same for my 7th grade world history notes on Islam), on science work, on random sheets of paper I rip out of my binder (probably the reason I run out of paper about 5x faster than anyone else in my class despite my tiny handwriting). Draw anything and everything. Doodle game characters (a big favorite of mine), your hand, people near you (I've a hilarious picture of my junior English teacher yelling at one of my friends), whatever. Try different styles, media, etc (I am just now starting to use ballpoint pen instead of a pencil). It's fun, and you'll improve a lot. Draw some serious pictures on blank paper too, so you can get the hang of composition and stages of work and stuff.
c) I (as noted before) draw on anything and everything. For thumbnails and rough drafts I use a mechanical pencil or blue/black pen on lined paper (that unfortunately has my notes on it). I usually use that as a reference for the final pieces, which if I do by hand are drawn in pencil, inked with black gel pen, and colored with colored pencils (I like Prismacolor) - note that this doesn't really scan well. If I draw digitally as I prefer nowadays I use a Wacom Intuos3 tablet and either Photoshop (for cartoons and quicksketches that I don't really shade) or (for commissions, contest pieces, etc) Corel Painter. Actually those are Photoshop Elements (I own real Photoshop but it's not on this computer so I don't use it) and Painter Essentials (hope to get real Painter someday). My mom keeps trying to get me to use Illustrator because "vector graphics are the way of the future" and all that bs but I really hate how it overrides my lines and tries to smooth out my sketching so I never use that.
d) Obviously with my digital stuff I don't do retouching, I just edit as I go along (trick: to catch annoying smudges of color that you can't see, add a semi-transparent layer of a color on top - they'll show up much better, and you can dump the lens layer later). With my paper stuff I usually erase smudges, etc in Photoshop and screw around with colors/contrast in Microsoft Picture Manager.
e) I don't really read a lot of tutorials... mostly I learn by looking at other people's drawings and from taking classes. I've seen a couple tutorials but not a ton. I'm a big fan of Makani, so look her up... she's put out some useful tutorials and she has TONS of art, in various levels of completion/seriousness, out there. I also used to follow Aimo very closely (first started really drawing in the KotorFanMedia community - also check out zazb on DeviantART - does a lot of cool concept stuff), and I read LOADS of webcomics... reading those can help you get a feel for different styles of art. I like Gunnerkrigg Court, Looking for Group, The Phoenix Requiem, The Meek, Drowtales, and Hanna Is Not A Boy's Name a lot. They're great for ideas.

Aaaand... wow, this is probably a huge-o wall of text, innit? And I'm supposed to be going to bed early since I'm sick. Whoops. Well, hope it's helpful.

Verene · Nov 03, 2009, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Granted, it does make me somewhat more sloppy - rather than trying to get a line correct the first time, my left hand just camps the lower left corner of the keyboard and I just do wild strokes over and over until one of them looks like what I want. Doesn't really help build hand control. lol

I enjoy the challenge that comes with traditional art, but it's also really frustrating to have an entire picture 'ruined' because your hand twitched a little bit on a detailed part of the lineart, or because your marker/pen suddenly had a nosebleed. >_>

See, I know I'm not going to get a line right - ever. I simply cannot draw a straight line to save my life; it either is completely not straight at all, or wavers/is slightly bumpy. So I had to draw things much more sketchily in order to get it looking halfway decent at all.

And oh my god don't start me on leaky pens >.< I nearly cried/screamed last week when inking an assignment for design, picked up my ruler, and discovered that my effing micron pen decided that BLEEDING ALL OVER THE PLACE would be a good idea. And of course it was just as I was finishing up so starting over would require tossing out a couple hours worth of work. I refuse to ever use that pen again with a ruler.

Also, Photoshop really isn't a vector program; you can make vector-style art with it, but not a true vector. Illustrator is what you want for that.

Quote:

I dunno, I feel like mistakes with traditional can always be fixed whether with some white gouache or some paint overs.

Sometimes. Pencil is only hard to fix if you're trying to erase something that you colored with, like, a 4B or 6B pencil (lifting out small highlights? Easy. Erasing a large area? Yeeeaaaah not happening). Watercolor can be fixed if you're careful. I've just come to hate having to do things precisely in ink because it's so easy to make a mistake and not quite as easy to correct.

Chicken of the Seas · Nov 03, 2009, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodiestarfish

@chicken: its "hoodie" and ur not using that avatar i made u QQ

Lulz yeah that was just a typo, sorry for that. And I haven't seen the avatar version yet, I've been waiting for it =O. I must have missed a post, I'll go check again now.

EDIT: Nvm, found it on the first page. Carry on.